A Seafood and Fish Chat with Rick Stein’s Winchester Chef Chris Baker

AGC Chef Interviews Vol. 1 (2019)

WHEN IT COMES TO COOKING SEAFOOD OR FISH DO YOU TEND TO PANIC?

British Chef Chris Baker sits down and talks one on one with Gwen Cash, from ASK GWEN CASH, an American food, wine, travel, and lifestyle blogger about his amazing culinary journey that led him to become the head chef at Rick Stein’s Winchester Restaurant.If you are anything like me (a novice cook) trying to attempt to cook fish or seafood, is very intimidating. Many people do not know how to buy it, prepare it, or make it. Good seafood can be a bit expensive so the last thing one would like to do is ruin a perfectly good piece of fish. Therefore, people tend to avoid making seafood at home as a choice for their main dish.

While visiting Winchester this fall on a food and wine trip through Europe, I had the luxury and opportunity to sit and interview Chef Chris (which is what he likes to be called) on why people are intimidated with cooking seafood in general. He also gives some practical tips on what to look for when buying fish and how to make it at home. Shall we dive right in?

AGC: Chef Chris, tell me and my viewers a little about yourself.

CC: I grew up in the Southampton just down the road and had a great childhood. I did the pretty cool usual kid stuff just getting messy and playing football. At a very young age, I found out I was interested in food. My dad was a chef before I was born and that was in the 70s. In the 70s, you really didn’t get paid very much back then, and it was really hard. Although he followed his passion for about four years sailing around the world on cruise ships, once my brother came along he had to get a proper job, so he quit being a chef.

AGC: So, at what age would you say you took on the liking of cooking?

CC: I say about 7 or 8. Yes, my mum used to cook every day, so I grew up on fresh food although we did not have much choice back then, it was fresh, other than processed or packaging and all that kind of thing. But Mum was a good cook, you know just your average food, but she was a good cook. But then dad would cook once every two weeks; come into the kitchen to do a dish from what he used do as a chef, so he would do like sole Veronique and Moules, just classic French dishes. They were easy, and when you are a kid, you think wow, this is better than mums. (Chuckle)

AGC: I know you said earlier that at the age of 7 or 8, you became interested in cooking, but what inspired you to become a chef?

CC: I just found that I enjoyed it and I wasn't really sporty at school. I was quite artistic, but I couldn't draw. I didn't have a skill in drawing or painting but cooking just seemed to click.

“Cooking just seemed to click for me.” — Chef Chris

AGC: How long have you been with Rick Stein’s Restaurant Group? And how did you end up in Winchester?

CC: So, I was working for Loch Fyne for a few years, and at that stage of my career, it was very heavily food related so then I was the head chef for Loch Fyne. I needed for myself to learn about business and profit and everything behind the scenes. So, you know, obviously cooking for nearly 20 years, then I wouldn't say I know how to cook everything, but I got to the level where I was happy, but I needed to progress still, so that is why I went to Loch Fyne to take on more the business side of it.

AGC: OK, before Loch Fyne, you had been in the industry for about 14 years, and before Loch Fyne, where you working at any restaurants outside of Southampton?

CC: I obviously learned from my dad and things like that so when I left school, I went to Catering College for three years. I did very well. I really got involved and enjoyed it. I did a lot of competitions and won some competitions. My mentor at the time was a guy called Martin Nash, and he went to college with a guy named Gary Rhodes. Gary Rhodes is probably like one of the first professional celebrity chefs to come on British TV. He did really well like Michelin restaurants that kind of thing. Then I left college and was obviously looking for a job. My mentor who was a friend of Gary said, "that if I wanted a job in London with Gary Rhodes, I got one for you. So, I just snapped it up; literally just packed up and moved to London. I worked ridiculous hours doing like 90 hours a week. It was a Michelin level, so it was great. I did that for two years all around the kitchen.

The first section I got put on was the vegetable section. It was basically like cooking new potatoes, picking spinach, and making like little garnishes for the other sections and not all that interesting. I remember speaking to my head chef about after three months and said, “listen, you know I need more, and I need to move off this section and do learn something else.” He appreciated that, I guess, so I went onto the pastry section. I did six months there and then I moved onto fish and then onto sauces, which was the section of meat and butchery.

AGC: So, you left school, went to work under Gary Rhodes for 2 years, then what happened?

CC: My sous chef, Gary Rhodes said he was going to New York and would like a job in New York City. Again, I packed my bags and went to NY and worked in a place called, Papillion under Paul Liebrandt, who trained under Marco Pierre White, there I learned the world of fusion cooking, which was really wacky crazy foods. After leaving New York I joined Richard Corrigan back in London at his Michelin restaurant Lindsay House and continued to stay with him for a further eight years. In September 2017, I moved to Winchester as the head chef of Rick Stein’s new location.

AGC: I was actually in this part of the country with much anticipation of the opening of this restaurant and probably one of the first person or couple that came and ate here. We were excited to see another seafood restaurant in town. However, I've noticed here in Winchester or even in England, ordering or eating fish and seafood is likely not many Britons first choice. They tend to go for other things before they order seafood or fish. Why is that?

CC: It’s not really in our culture. We are a land of meat eaters, although we are surrounded by sea. It's just really weird. You know there's like this Irish thing, they have fish on Fridays, so they always eat fish on a Friday. apart from that, we've not really got any connection with great fish dishes. Rick’s got over a thousand of fish dishes, but not a huge amount of them are from England. Very few and far between if in comparison.

“If you are not educated on fish, you are probably not going to try and make it.” —- Chef Chris

AGC: Which is interesting because you are you are surrounded by water and you have great fish out there. Do you think that it is because fish or seafood can be very intimidating, so most people like myself, is not going to fuss with it at home? Why are most people intimidated with cooking fish?

CC: I think its lack of education or knowledge. Not to put people down, they just don’t know. If you are not educated on fish, you are probably not going to try it or experiment with it at home. Also, the price of fish is another reason to avoid making it. If you look at a piece of fish, it can cost you around 5 pounds a portion to take home, therefore, you really do not want to mess it up. Whereas, you can go and buy chicken breast or steak in which everyone has more an idea on how to prepare it.

AGC: Who is responsible for the Winchester Rick Stein restaurant food menu?

CC: OK first, myself and sous chef will go through Rick's books of recipes when we have a menu change come in, which is all pre planned, so we know like four months ahead of time. We also have a date four months ahead and it is all seasonal from then on. I go through the books and then share the books out to my guys as well, so they can get involved for any dishes that they would like to put on the menu.

AGC: In that book do you have to go specifically by the directions of that recipe. Do you have any flexibility?

CC: No, it’s got to be the way Rick wants it. We pick the dishes they get sent off to my executive chef, and Rick, then they’ll have a look at it and they'll go yes or no and then the next stage is at the restaurant, we then develop that dish, so that it is kitchen friendly. Obviously if you look at a recipe in a book it's for four people or six people, we have to make it you know in batches, because obviously we're not going to cook for four people at a time. Everything we cook is fresh, but if there's a sauce that needs to go with it or if you are making like a terrine or something that needs a recipe, so we do that. It then gets sent off again once we've got the okay, we go down to the cookery school in Padstow, and cook those dishes for Rick and his Son Jack (Chef director), and Luke our exec chef will be there, and they literally sign off that dish then it gets costed, obviously because it's important, and then it comes back to us to make it a massive list of all our recipes that we've already done then a go live date and then we do it.

AGC: What is the secret to cooking the perfect piece of fish?

“The biggest key to cooking the perfect piece of fish is to keep it simple.” —- -Chef Chris.

CC: It Depends really on what piece of fish you're cooking. All fish has a different temperament of when you cook it. Say for example, you get a piece of monkfish and let’s say everything's off the bone to make it easy. You got a piece of monkfish you want to treat it more like a steak. You know show it some fat and some butter on medium heat, and then you want to baste that fish because it’s got finer flakes to it. So, if you imagine cod, and if you cook it and if you pressed it, it would completely separate, whereas with monkfish, if you pressed it, it wouldn’t move as it is a lot denser. The biggest key is keeping it simple and you can YouTube things these days. Whatever piece of fish you got, you can always go and YouTube it.

AGC: Hmm, that is an excellent idea. YouTube it. What can people expect when dining at the Rick Stein’s Restaurant in Winchester?

CC: Well the freshest fish to begin with, a nice ambiance with a nice chill feel. I think people kind of perceive us to be a bit posh, but that's not what we're trying to portray, we're trying to portray a relaxed atmosphere with great service food and great wine. Charlie picks the wines, he is another one of Rick's sons as he does the wine list for us.

AGC: What is your most essential cooking item or items in you the restaurant kitchen?

CC: In my kitchen, I would say, the thermometer, because we need to make sure everything we cook is precise and at the correct temperature. I mean there are two reasons, one obviously for health and safety as that product has to be cooked for health and safety reason. But there's also for technical reasons, let’s say if you cook a steak for example, as we talked about a steak, if you cooked a steak for example when you want it rare, the best way of doing it is just to probe it and check it out.

AGC: I did not know that you could do that with fish.

CC: Yes, we probe every slice of fish that leaves the kitchen.

AGC: If you were not a chef, what would you like to be?

CC: Race in Formula One. I love Formula one and I am a big Hamilton fan.

AGC: On your off day, what do you like to do?

Chef Chris: Just go out for a drive and then think about where we're going to eat. (Laughs) We decide if we want to go out or we will go to the supermarket and see what looks good. We either cook or eat out, but we hardly ever do takeaways. If we are super lazy, we would do a takeaway and it is usually a curry.

AGC: What advice would you give to upcoming young chefs?

“Go somewhere where you’re going to learn old school techniques.” — —Chef Chris

CC: Ok first of all, if they've gone through college and they've learned the basics, try and go somewhere where you're going to learn old school techniques. It is a shame nowadays that working in restaurants that a lot of the stuff is done for you. We do it from fresh. Our fish for example is all portioned ready - you know so we're not we're not prepping. Can you imagine the amount of fish we have to prep for a Saturday night for example? So that's all done. But then you know, the kids that are coming through they just know what a piece of fish looks like they don’t know how to filet or anything, so probably the most important thing is to go somewhere that are doing things from the beginning.

AGC: Down to old school techniques is what you're saying, which is very good advice. Even I am interested in learning the basics like how to properly use a knife in chopping vegetables. And I am not a chef.

AGC: What is your favorite thing about Winchester?

CC: I love Winchester. It's just really chilled. It's got a good atmosphere. It's quite buzzy, especially the weekends. There's always lots going on and really quirky stuff. You know they normally do a hat fair, which is what it is. And It goes back I’m not sure how many years, but it is a really old tradition where people just wear strange funky hats for a day and play music in the streets.

AGC: As I close out this interview, describe the dining experience at Rick Stein’s Winchester in three words.

Photos provided by Rick Stein’s Restaurant

CC: Exciting! Different! Tasty! And Delicious!

AGC: Chef, that is exactly how I would describe Rick Steins here in Winchester. After sitting and talking to you about fish and seafood, it makes me want to eat more of it at home and of course here in the restaurant. I really appreciate you letting me interview you and I hope to come back in the summer and continue talking fish and seafood. Also, for the record, I will say that if you want to eat GOOD fish and chips, Rick Stein’s is the best in my opinion. And that is coming from a someone all the way from Austin Texas.

If you are visiting in the Winchester area, you must go to Rick Stein’s for lunch or dinner and try their amazing fish and seafood dishes. Reservations are highly recommended.

To hear the entire audio interview, please go to https://anchor.fm/agcworldwideexplorer